TBS #8 | Brand identity + Brand strategy | JACOB CASS (JUST CREATIVE)

TBS #8 | Brand identity + Brand strategy | JACOB CASS (JUST CREATIVE)


Hey, what’s up everybody hope you guys are doing well, welcome to the bless show and this is our season two We’re back after a gap of three months. We’ve been away, but I’m super happy and super stoked to be back specifically super happy because we have an amazing lineup of guests and talking about guests we today have also have a guest speaker on a podcast and He’s an amazing inspiration and I’ve been talking about it on Instagram lately as well He’s been doing some amazing value for the design community If I talk about him a little more I’ve been following him for a very long time and I started out I was looking up for you know resources Because I’m a self-taught designer. I have no education In design whatsoever So I was always Jumping on the internet to find out what is it about and what is all that about and I always happen to jump on His website and learn a lot from what he had to value what he had to provide for the design community so Not taking much of the time. I would like to introduce Jacob welcome Jacob He’s from just creative you might very well be aware of him. Just creative calm if you are a designer I’m sure that you might always have jumped into this website. So welcome Jacob. Welcome to the blessed show. How are you doing? Thank you so much. Very nice intro. I’m doing very very well down here in Sydney I’m very excited to talk to all of you guys and thanks for listening What’s up? Ah That’s good. That’s good um I would like to take this moment to thank you for accepting to be on the show because I was hoping that I could get people like you on the show so that we can provide much more value to the community to the listeners so that they can learn more about how Branding business or strategy business works. So thank you very much for being on the show. First of all. Yeah. No worries and I’m very grateful for all the Posters or contributors out there that are organizing all these podcasts and interviews and there’s really great to see especially in Instagram rants It’s really picking up a lot and especially podcasts. I’m very happy to get involved Yeah. All right. That’s great. So Moving on to the show. I would like to I would like to ask you to maybe introduce yourself because Some of them might not be very well aware which I don’t think a lot is there but then again For few of them those were not aware of who you are and what you do Would you please introduce yourself and talk about a bit of what you do and how you do it sure thing I’ll try to keep this short and sweet because I want you guys to get the most Valuable actually actual tips out of this but to give some context of where my tips are coming from and a bit about me I’ll just go a bit back of my history in terms of Let’s say about 15 years ago. I’m 31 now to give some context. So I was about 15 or 16 when I started Happy InDesign. It was I had no idea design was a career. I create advisor told me about it So after I knew that I knew that I wouldn’t be designer. So I focused my efforts on going from Photoshop Like as a hobby to learn into that design as a career I still had no idea what was in store for me at that time But it got me excited and it was always in my blood I was never attracted to the sciences or anything like that at heart was always in in me, so With that in mind I went to university I studied visual communication majoring in graphic design and over that that three-year degree period I had run a design blog called just creative design and This is when my career really picked up I was sharing my knowledge that I was learning at university about design on my blog and this was the early days of Blogging so there was a small community a lot of commenters and the social media wasn’t really a thing yet Twitter and Facebook were just starting up and just getting traction, but I was an early adopter and because of this my blog got a lot of ranking on search because there was not much competition and We built a community around that and over that time. I was sharing all these resources like Probably what a design students are Learning today and that got the interest of some design agencies in New York City So I was insuiting at the time and I got head hunted for a design agency in New York City So I went from a design student to working for Disney, which is crazy and Yeah, I lived in New York for five years and I worked for another different agencies and it’s specialized in Interactive design, so I did a lot of websites been attended Jerry Seinfeld Powerade and Kirk and all these big brands and throughout this whole time I was also running my design business called just creative and the blog and I was moonlighting and then I was during full time I traveled the world for three years during and working throughout his time and I’m still running that design blog now, which is what I am He’s up there and where you’ll find all my resources, and I specialize in logo design and branding now And I’m kind of pivoting towards more brand strategy at the moment. So I’m sharing a lot of resources on that as well So if you’re a logo designer Definitely check out the resources I have and then if you wanted to pivot into something like brand strategy Yeah, you can follow me along with my journey of learning that because so it’s really what I’m about and that’s I even looking back At now like university. I was sharing just what I was learning and that’s how you learn We all start from somewhere. I’m getting deeper into brand strategy now and even though I’ve been doing branding for 10 years I’m still learning so much more and more all the time because contents coming out and more books and more people are sharing so it’s just a great bundle of resources out there and I’m just sharing as I go so Follow me – to learn more and I think we’re gonna have a chat about all of that as well now Yes for sure Awesome. So so so great to hear about this story, you know And as you mentioned you started your blog when while you were studying design That is something that not many people Not many beginners realize the fact that it’s never too early to start, you know Something that I see a lot of people complaining about the fact is that I’m still studying I’m still waiting for my degree, which is I’m just still waiting for that Something that I always figure out and will always look up to people when they start early is the fact that they have more experience in less time possible and Would you like to share a bit about how did you manage to start your blog while you were studying I mean while you were studying this design, how did you manage to actually put that up? put all those Contents together and then put them in a blog so that it could be your actionable tip for people those who are trying to you Know start out when they study Yes at the time. I didn’t even know what blogging was. I was just It was maybe a blog stir or some Some platform back in the day that I was just putting not there and then through that I realized those this whole blogging world Found out about WordPress and what WordPress does and then I hopped onto that platform has started learning bad Which also have not the kind of weren’t of learn web development web development as well. So basically you just one or one door I pronounce opens another door and I was just sharing on I started sharing a WordPress and it was just It’s really just to me sharing design basics and that’s what I was learning at that time Obviously, I’m not going to be doing that 15 years down the track. I don’t post web design basics anymore principles of design So just a different stage of the journey and to come back to what you’re saying in terms of was never too early to start It’s totally true. Everyone’s at a different point in their journey of what they’re learning. So Put yourself out there, even if it is not the best It’ll get better you get in you will get better and you’ll look back on and be like you laugh But that’s part of the journey and you can’t be a professional From day one, you know you’ve got to put in the hard yards and It’s just about creating and getting a conversation going and getting dialogue out there and your thoughts out there. I Think someone said they you don’t have to be a thought leader. You just have to be a thought contributor and Yeah, yes. I think if you put a bit put it that way then You you if the fear gets extinguished I guess And the more you do it the more comfortable you’ll be with it and you you’ll get feedback and improve so Don’t hold back just get started and put things out there Show your work. I think it was Jason. I can’t release the book name It’s a great book about just putting the work out that you’re doing and you’ll get exposure and you’ll learn and all of that. So Yeah, it’s been awesome clear eye that the book. Yeah Hey work. Yeah Yeah, that’s true. That’s that’s really true. Because uh You know the thought that you mentioned though, don’t focus on being a thought leader But a thought contributor because there has been a misconception when I said when I also started out by the way I’m just new I’m not at all an experienced guy, but when I started out probably three years back There was this misconception that people had you know If you if you want to teach people you need to be an expert You need to be at the top mass level to actually teach people, you know, that kind of stuff So I always learn a lot of things that I wanted to tell people that you know you should not be do you should be avoiding this or you should be adopting this but at the same time I Didn’t have this thought process in my mind that I always thought. I’m still a learner So, how can I teach I’m still learning? So how can I teach people that kind of stuff but later I figure out that you know You can never stop learning in your life So if if you never stop learning in your life How are you gonna teach people in that sense? So lately specifically talking about Instagram I’m so happy that you know, there are a lot of resources going out there a lot of value going our people from different Level of expertise sharing their experiences personal experiences Which is really helping our people helping the designers to learn and understand in the expert level. So Totally agree with the fact that you said, you know, it’s it’s never early To start out. You just have to put it out. You just have to put out the content whatever that is so that you can You can get that fear out of you So that’s great so we also like to ask you about how did you land up working with big brands like Disney like Nike like Nintendo because for all the listeners out there I would just like to tell you that he has been he is he his portfolio consists of work for Disney for Nintendo for Coke Also for recently for San Francisco, which was really amazing work by the way because III was looking up the case study stuff and it looks so pretty neat and I was so inspired by the fact so Great work out there You know with everything on Disney Nintendo coke and not even the big brands but looking at the portfolio You have a consistency in your work Which is so inspiring to see so would you like to share a little bit about how you landed up working with them? how is the experience like you know, and What did you learn from that which you would like to share for to people out there? they’re good questions, and I think this comes down to Perspective because I’m not actually landing these big clients myself. I’m working through an agency so I was working in New York for four or five years and There’s big brands you mentioned most of them were through an agency. So there was a team of designers. It wasn’t just me What team of designers actually like developers managers creative directors art directors? So I’m not working one-on-one with these these brands and that’s important to consider so if you’re starting out early in your career highly recommend you you’ve worked at an agency or design studio first because you’re gonna get Access to people smarter than you you’re gonna learn a lot more that way. You’re gonna fast-track your career You can freelance through that time as well moonlighting it but I highly recommend growing a studio first because it just it does wonders for your work and access to bigger clients and sure, not everyone’s going to jump from design student to Disney, but you get your foot in the door, you know and you work your way up and whatever level you’re at and you’ll get there and if you don’t getting the clients who want one agency shop around see what you can get and In terms of experience working with these brands. It’s it’s like any project to be honest. It’s just with bigger brands so like oh if I was doing a website for like a My safe item in water. It’s the same as if I was doing it for like a local water brand or whatever It’s still the same messaging and Not messaging it’s the same principles when it comes to the process and what what you’re putting out there except that you’re working with a team of People instead of just one on one if it’s a small client So you do have to have that to deal with and like I said you get access to creative directors and art directors who can Help you along the way. So that’s that’s what I enjoyed about that side of things and Ageing the agency world I’ve left that behind me where I work them I’ve been working for myself for Full time three four four years now No, yeah. Thank and that the San Fran San Francisco project He just mentioned that was through my business just creative but I was subcontracted through another agency Who specializes in? Travel destinations. So this agency they subcontracted me out for the Design work yet. They had done all with strategy nine months of it beforehand. That would give me one brief to design properly and obviously cost was such a big brand and destination like I put a lot of effort into the design and much more than I was contracted for, but that’s because I Really wanted that work to to win and I I was in competition with a bunch of other designers as well I also got subcontracted out and the logo had to go through user testing in 20 different states and It just went through a ton before I even knew that it got picked and thankfully I did get picked which is really super also – Yeah Really good by the legislature, you know Yes, it’s the breach was well anyone has been to census goodness how big and bold and very open they are so And the iconic bridge as well. It just made sense to join all of that together into one knot and Yeah, you just have to check it out to really see it. It’s hard to talk about design visually or the audio but That process yeah, that was like I said a bunch of different designs subcontracting So that process was different to being an agency. It was just me working by myself and working one-on-one with the agency director and the manager, you know, yeah that was Yeah, the reason you know, the reason why I asked you know why I use the word How did you land up because a lot of times people work when? For example, let’s say that somebody Visits your website and they see your portfolio With these big brands so they are figuring out on their own that you have landed up but with these clients, but something that you mentioned that something that you suggested that people should consider working on a design agency once you are coming out of Your design degree or let’s say once you have completed your college kind of stuff so a lot of misunderstanding because many people come to me and they ask How do these people land up with these big brands? So I’m like it’s not that they have landed up It’s not like they went to the brand or they just told them you know what we do design We do branding we do strategy. Would you like to do something like that? So there’s a lot of process behind This so for beginners to understand, you know, it’s just not you Working with the big brands. It’s a collective effort of people working together And that is how this thing turns out. So thank you for sharing the experience also I would like to ask when we are talking about agencies and working for yourself Which one like for ya. You have mentioned that you are working for yourself for the past four or five years, so What is the difference of course there’s a lot of difference physically as well But what would you prefer would you prefer working on an agency or would you prefer working for yourself? so at this whole time I have worked for myself through even though at an agency so you get experience along the way and you You learn what you? Learn it you adapt from what I decide you whatever you learn at the agency you adapt for your own freelance and there the difference the difference is obviously you have to go into the office if you remove your yeah, they’re Working for home is you can work from home or anywhere and that’s what I was able to travel the world for for so long and Because you can work from anywhere, but I did have a foundation set up for me up for me to be able to do that mm-hmm this one to jump back to the other question because the previous question because you asked me how do you land these jobs and if you’re not an agency, and you for example the San Fran one, how did I land that job a lot of it comes down to the work that you put in in your Portfolio and how you have marketing yourself and the exposure you have? So the more places you are more exposure. You have the more places you can be seen and the more chances of you being hired and that’s that goes with your website like be hands LinkedIn all the social profiles, you know, not just one and if you you have to consider like for a lot of designers going to Instagram and show that work there and They’re often just sharing their work to other designers that clients aren’t necessarily looking there so if you’re looking for clients in that respect like just Reconsider really think about where your clients are. Consider your niche What type of work you want to do if it is logo design? Is it logo design in your area is the logo design in the travel industry or for restaurants? Like do you have a niche? that’s a big help for beginners is to choose a niche and So those are just a few ways that you have to keep in mind when you’re trying to get clients it’s not a simple answer As the design is the easy part of at least when you have experience in the beginning, it’s not so easy, but opening Once you get it more experienced in design the marketing becomes hot in the business side of things casada. It’s all about relationships and Building up trust and rapport with people and that’s how you get the big jobs and that’s how you get the higher budget job is because you have more confidence you have more experience and you can rip the value is there and you can really show that value but with how you speak and with your work and That’s how you get those big clients. You can’t jump into that straight away from Being a beginner, but it’s important to come to learn those principles and how it works so you can get to there In the future sure Yeah, awesome Truly agreed with the fact that you know marketing yourself to the niche that You’re focusing on what would you suggest for designers those who are starting out specifically in? In the span of two years or three years. Let’s say somebody starting out on 2019. How would they market themselves? to the niche that they are focusing on what what actionable tips would you suggest that they met they may use To market themselves to the niche that they’re focusing on Yeah, so if I was starting out and I knew what I knew today, I would create a pennant in this landscape It was different ten years ago. I’ll create my own platform. So your own website where your everything lives That’s where if your heart, you know social media platforms You don’t own and they limit your breach. Even if you have a million followers, you can’t access the million followers So with your website you can you have full control mostly and I’d recommend starting an email newsletter because you can’t roll that it’s you own it and use your website as a selling tool it’s and then Learn search engine optimization because yeah, this is how your people will find your website through search engines 85% of my traffic to my website comes from Search one percent Comes from social media social media. Yeah, that’s crazy. Isn’t it? The rest is direct? Yeah when you mentioned that on your Instagram? Recently on your Instagram post. I was a little blown away because the fact that you know, a lot of the designers are only focusing on social media at this point and Which is not helping them gain clients game Design book of course, they might be getting some favor. Of course They might be getting some followers some likes some statistics But is it really helping them grow their business in a sense? so that was also a kind of You know Thought-provoking statement for me that how you Really need to have your own website for your work at this point of time. So as you mentioned that 1% Is from social media and 85% of your website traffic is from SEO. So For example, let’s say somebody who is starting out because the reason why I keep saying Focusing on starting out because I have a lot of listeners those who are starting out and they want actionable tips on how to start out with things so do they Jump right away on website or should they start on social media and then transition it to their website What would be your tip on that? There’s no point being on social media if you don’t have a product in place if you don’t have something you sell or Trying to promote your work or your profile or a course or your book or whatever it may be Didn’t have any of these assets in place. What’s the point of being on social except for getting followers and some dopamine here? it’s It’s yeah just focus on on doing up your business and Then use search as a Driver to promote some of it but don’t rely on social at all it like I said 1% and that’s I don’t even get clients from social media. It’s so rare compared to word-of-mouth and search What would you recommend for beginners? For websites because let’s say you don’t you have just got out of your college and you don’t have lot of portfolio works for your Portfolio website so practice projects is it practice projects? Should they? Should they focus on design contests? Should they reach out to? Prospects should they do cold emails? What would we would like to suggest among these to build up a good portfolio? building up a good portfolio comes down to Your design school you should have a portfolio at five when you finished because that’s what they build you up for to Ideally have something so you can get a job or market yourself But it’s not to say that is what you want to be focusing on so maybe at the end of your design school You know, you’d like a certain area of design such as illustration or branding or whatever it may be you may pivot towards that direction and Do more projects in that realm? So if you have an idea of where you want to go it’d be easier if you don’t know where you want to go, which is common because who not everyone knows it’s trying to figure out what what you do like and how you do that is practice predicts and You can follow people in Instagram that they inspire you you can track emulate what they’re doing maybe they have a tutorial and These can build up your portfolio you could also donate your services to A business in need. I don’t recommend doing design contest sites Because that is speculative work I won’t get into that here But it’s better for you to donate your services to a proper cause then just have a chance of winning and competing with other people and it kind of devalues the idea of design and working with clients one-on-one and actually listening to their needs versus just a short brief and Hoping for the best and someone else steals your work or whatever. It’s just it’s bit like the plague in there. It’s a yeah, I threw yeah, it’s um, I Try to avoid it. It’s there’s so many other ways you can Up your portfolio. Then I’m doing that. There’s a lot of design brief sites out there That will have fictional briefs that you can follow daily logo challenges and if you just type in fictional briefs and design press into Google, you’ll find a lot and That way you can put up your portfolio but if you have an idea of what area you want to focus on and they’re the type of clients you want to get That’s what you should put a new portfolio because you get hired for what’s in your portfolio. So yeah yeah, thanks for sharing that because the reason why I asked is there are chances that you may not have a design degree, you know and if you don’t have a design degree, but you are definitely interested in getting you to design so If you have a design degree, definitely they’ll be working on a portfolio and you are you are it’s it’s mandatory that you have a portfolio at the end of your Degree, but if you started out from scratch You should be focusing on practice projects and you should be focusing on as you mentioned fictional briefs and start working on them offer your service for people those who might really Need that if we have time I just want to say in terms of how to get out of that fiber mindset is to show that value to show your value and how for you to stand out from other designers is very important and The value that you communicate on your website and your profile and the content you put out there is how you’re going to stand out It comes down to your brand your your personal brand and if you put out free resources on your website, for example It can show you expertise If you’re a beginner you can it could be even be like a free resource of like how to quick start your brand what makes a good logo and Promote your website in that way. Like I said, the SEO thing is important so you can be found And you can be really granular. So if you’re focusing on a certain area or Location that’s one way to niche. I I have a I personally have a global strategy, so I focus on us mainly but also anywhere in the world because I Don’t focus on Sydney where I’m from because it’s kind of close the Internet is like a open place and you have a global marketplace and I closing that off but I Designer you could each down to somewhere just in your area and go locally, so it just depends on your strategy but it comes down to Providing value on your site and sharing your point of difference and why people should hire you over someone else so put yourself in your clients shoes and What would they look for how when you’re looking for someone to? clean your bathroom or To clean your house or do some other service in the in the yard How are you judging and how you choosing? It is their customer service. Is that their website? Is it is it nicely designed? It’s the easy to contact they have an answer machine like all these touch points give judging the business on so put yourself in the clients shoes and Say we’ll do that this client hire me like would they put this person hire me? Based on what I’m putting out there. So that’s an important thing to consider When you starting out? Yeah, yeah some great tips out there for all the beginners, you know how you can get out of that five of mindset and Gonna focus on putting your work out and focusing on the niche that you have got so thanks for sharing that as well So we’ll jump on to the listeners question now The first question that I pigged was, why did he choose pink for your brand itself? Why pink him not other colors because I got probably more than four or five questions that why did he choose pink? For his brand. What was the reason behind that? So would you like to share some something about why did he choose pink and not any other color? Absolutely, and this isn’t the first time it’s been asked. I think I needed to Instagram person. That’s because yeah, it’s yeah Love to have an Instagram. Why pink? Yes, so pink it was chosen because my name was Jacob Cass and my business was called just creative and I thought a creative color. Well a creative color that came to mind is like bright fresh colors of pink and yellows and Vibrant colors pink I chose because it represented creative. I also had a crush on the huge their company Huge Inc that had a pink brand and others love their style And that’s where? The influence came from the early days that that pink color by the terms of what color theory behind this bright pink color it’s very energetic and creative and is bright and fresh and vibrant and these are over light back to the style that I was going forward is quite minimal black and white with very With the accent of pop of a pink pop coat. You have a pop of color and that’s really where the pink came into it and yeah, it’s stuck ever since and another reason is because There’s not many male designers out there that are willing to go pink. Yeah stands out a lot and You’re asking these questions. I think it’s done its job. Okay? Yeah for sure it has done its job because you know Anywhere on Instagram if you see pink stuff out there whether it’s on stories or whether it’s on posts, you know It’s by jakub casts. So that is definitely doing its work. We also have we also have Frank who is using pink and You guys are apparently called the pink guys The second question that we had from one of our listeners is how to know whether your work is original and by this he definitely meant originality in work at this point at this age of Internet is so rare you you don’t find if Every other work you see you you seem like, you know, you have already seen it It seems like you have already seen it somewhere So how do you maintain the originality in your work when it comes to design work specifically? We’re talking about the design work. How do you maintain originality? What are some of your tips or tricks or what are some of your suggestions on how to keep your work original? There is a quote it says don’t try to be original. Just try to be good so good Keep that in mind then you won’t have any issues But in terms of keeping things original in your own work I think it’s about borrowing from different sources and using that inspiration to Go down different roads or to build upon. So obviously you’re not going to directly copy design But if you borrow from enough places, you can create something original So everything is borrowed from somewhere else and we all use each other’s work from somewhere or another But you should also look back at your design brief as well to make sure that it’s actually on point Because I want to copy something because they had it’s totally different design brief. So in terms of keeping things original I’ve Just certainly done designs before and then I do a reverse image search and I find something similar and I just have to roll it out but you can do tweaks to it and You can if it is ruled out it just it just means an opportunity to explore something else and they come up with something better so do your research and see if there’s things out there and It does happen because yeah, it’s it. There’s so many designers out there and now everything is so accessible that Yeah, it’s bound to happen at some time but as long as you do some research and do some trademark search, especially when it comes to logo design then That’ll be fine. And in terms of different design styles, I think copying this style is is great because you can There’s already something established there that you can use and think make your own as well so whatever it whether they like this wrist design style or graffiti or like something crazy and just use it and Mix and match with all the styles as well. So just using all those points you can be original Yeah. Alright. Thanks for that. So jumping out of the next one The third question the last one for this episode is what are your tips on starting as a business strategist let’s say because you mentioned you’re pivoting your business or to more in this strategy from logo and brand identity stuff, so What is something that you are figuring out? What is something that you’re learning down the you know pivot? Process what is what is it that you would like to suggest on starting as a business strategist? Yes, I wouldn’t jump straight into a bayonet. There’s a branding strategist because it’s pretty deep subject and and you did to need to learn a lot about before you do it and you may want to be during strategy and design which is what I Want to do which I’m I’ve always been doing strategy just not in a deep way and Recently, I’ve kind of worked in the part in terms of having them as two different service services I’ve been watching videos with the future which have been great and just reading different books and articles about strength Barun strategy and how to talk about it with clients and how to separate the services and really just discuss the value of strategy and using that information to Go a little deeper with brands to give them more impact have deeper connections and Just make them more memorable memorable in general and there’s just more questions to ask in different frameworks and different processes you have to use to really get to this deeper level and Once you can do that and you’re comfortable doing it, which I’m still learning myself then your confidence raises and you can talk about the value of this process and you can Increase your prices and use as a different service to build into your business and that’s really where I’m at now, and I do want to Make businesses or give more deeper meaning to these businesses so they can provided a deeper impact and That’s where I’m at at the moment if you wanted to get into it, I’d suggest Reading watching some of the videos on the future Linda Libby I just did a live talk with her on Instagram last week and you can check my profile for that or hers and we talked about how to sell strategy there’s a 40 minute discussion or so on how to do that and If you want to transition, there’s also another video It is posted on how to transition that was with my agenda and we have a good discussion about that And yeah, just asking any questions because I’m learning as well And yeah, just enjoying the journey so check those out Yeah, so check those resources out. You know, it’s as he mentioned future, of course probably most of us know futures YouTube channel you can check it out so that you can learn more about how to do strategy and Jacob has also done a live stream with Melinda. You can check out his profile and Melinda’s profile as well. So There are a lot of actionable tips as well from my channel that would really really help you to get things in place with Strategy though. So thanks for that information. And also I would also like to say keep keep checking Jacobs profile because I’m pretty sure that a lot of more content is coming out in future, which is definitely gonna help people to get what he is on his journey, so Thank you very much for all the answers I’m pretty sure that all that wanted to know all that they wanted to get from you. They might definitely have got it. So Before wrapping up the show Jacob what what is what is something that you would suggest? To the solo entrepreneurs those who are starting out those are starting out on themselves. Let’s say not even starting out Let’s say they are transitioning from an agency life to working for yourself What are some tips or tricks or? Suggestions you would like to share for all the beginners out there those who are starting out with working for yourself or full-time Freelancing or full-time or solo business something that you would highly recommend doing Something that you learned the hard way maybe and you would like to suggest people not doing that or doing that We have discussed. Most of the tips are ready it’s about doing it and getting your your name out there and your platform and I Wouldn’t suggest making a hard fast switch to do it in transition so When you get to a point where you can’t were you just so busy That you can’t keep up with your full-time job and your moonlight job That’s the time to quit you can focus on your business because you’re so busy You have the clients you have to work as soon as you quit your main job you’ll have so much more time to focus on your business it’ll grow and grow and grow because you can focus on Building up and if you’ve got to a point where you’ve got those clients You’re obviously doing something bribe And if that what you’re doing it would be amplified when you have so much more time. And I found this out the hard Way, there’s actually the easy way because I left my job in New York I went traveling for a year and save money to go traveling for a year But I found had so much more time when I was traveling I got to see the sights and travel went to 60 plus countries Still ran the business on the side and still have more time to build up the business because because of it so it’s just made total sense I’m not saying that you go out and travel and do that because I had to think that the brand and platforming place to do That I’ve been up for what 10 years or something But you can you can definitely do it as when you get to that point. So consider that And if you do want to travel actually it is possibly because you can go to places which are more affordable like if you wanted To be a digital nomad so it start off in somewhere affordable like Asia Thailand Vietnam Somewhere like that You can live cheaply and you can go to your business and travel when you have that extra time So it’s it’s totally possible And if I was wanting to turn into a digital nomad when I was starting out, that’s what I do It’s great. All right. Yeah, so just just touching on the point, you know You have traveled a lot and you like traveling a lot So you have been to probably more than 80 plus countries. Am I right? Yeah, correct Yeah 87 that’s awesome. Have you ever been to India by the way yes a good friend of ours got married to an Indian and Yoga teachers so we went over there for a big Indian wedding, which was incredible So a few weeks. Yeah, that’s great. Yeah weddings weddings are a big deal for us Yeah Yeah, we would also love to have you on India anytime you are always welcome you would Make sure that you feel like home, you know, we make sure that you enjoy India its fullest. So what? Be nice with actors if it’s a big country. So what to see Yeah, of course. Yeah, so thank you very much for being on the show. I really appreciate the fact because you know somebody who I looked up to when I started out I learned from Has been an inspiration and when you get to know personally about how they are trans how you’re transitioning into Businesses and how you’re doing? It all alone and all that stuff It’s it’s so great and it’s an honor for us as well to learn from you in a way So raw, so, you know you don’t feel you feel the Transparency you feel that how you are so genuine about what you do and how you share about the value? So thank you very much. I really appreciate the fact that you’re on the show and sharing the value Really? Appreciate the fact man. Yeah. Thank you so much. It was great. Thank you Alright, so that’s it for today guys I hope that you have enjoyed the episode and I would also like to ask where can people find you If they would like to reach out to you if they would like to see your work You can plug in your stuff. Yeah. Sure. So most of my handles are by just creative my main website. Just creative calm You’ll find everything there’s actually a really cool freebie that you get When you enter or join a mailing list, you get hundreds of different design and branding resources logo resources design resources logo templates and a bunch of stuff that you’ll get and you’ll always have access to and I’ll be adding to it all all the time so you can either go to just creative calm and enter it there or there’s a special URL for a Branding briefcase calm which will just redirect to my site But yeah, that’s how you can stay connected and yeah tons of resources in there Awesome. Yeah, make sure to all the listeners out there you make sure that you check out his website and subscribe to his mailing list because Got some amazing ton of value provided and you if you check out his websites full of resources full of blogs The full of stuff that will help you grow your design business To a level higher than what you are at now. So thank you very much once again Really appreciate the fact coming on the show, and I hope we get to talk more as well. Awesome. Thanks again

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