Is It Time To Ban Triathlon Bikes? | The GTN Show Ep. 131

Is It Time To Ban Triathlon Bikes? | The GTN Show Ep. 131

– This is the GTN Show,
brought to you by Amp Human. Welcome. After a lot of recent hype
around a certain running shoe I’ve got a different question to ask you. Do you think triathlon
bikes should be banned? Well to help me answer that question I’m going to be enlisting
the help of an expert who’s going to be joining me in a moment. We’ve also got a giveaway from Amp Human. Two fairly big races to
cover after the weekend. As well as plenty of
photos both from you guys and from us which I’m going
to be sharing back with you. (upbeat music) All right, let’s get
straight to the point. It’s a pretty big question, why should triathlon bikes be banned? Well this all came about from the comments on the back of last week’s show, when we discussed the
controversial Nike Alphafly which saw Eliud Kipchoge
break that two hour marathon in the Ineos 1:59 challenge. Admittedly that exact
shoe has been banned, but Nike have now announced that they’re going to be producing a different type of the Alphafly, one that actually fits
within the perimeters. So, a shoe that isn’t more than
40mil in width of it’s foam, and doesn’t have more
than one carbon plate. Now World Athletics have made these rules, and it seems as though, the triathlon are at least going to see part of that rule coming across, because the ITU, the triathlon federation, runs the governing body for Olympic sport, and the World Athletics rules
are the same for the Olympics, and therefore triathlon is
going to have to follow those when it comes to Olympic racing. Under Ironman it’s a
little bit more vague, there doesn’t seem to be a
statement out at the moment, but we presume that Ironman
and all of triathlon’s going to follow the same
rule with these shoes. And whether there’ll be any
others made we don’t know. But that then gets the question asking, so why if we follow the athletics rules do we not follow the UCI rules when it comes to triathlon bikes? And it got a lot of you really
kind of airing your opinions on the comments section. So we’ve got a few of those to share from the show last week. Kartguy76 says “Using an IAAF banned shoe “is no different than using
a non-UCI legal bike.” And that had several
comments underneath it including one from Pete Fry who says, “Very good point. Both
Rinny and Ryf have won Kona “on non-UCI legal bikes. “Do they feel like they
cheated as Mark suggested “about winning with the
shoes…I doubt it.” Yeah, very good point, they’ve been riding the Felt AR actually, the bike that Mark and
Frasier have at the moment so you could ask them that question. And then another comment
here from Julien Bouilot. “All triathlon bikes
are banned by the UCI… “Don’t see why triathletes
should feel any different “about shoes.” So it got me thinking, how important is technology in going fast, and is it fair that we’ve got
way slacker rules than the UCI and how much do we actually
gain in aerodynamics. Well, someone who knows a
lot more about aero gains than myself is GCN presenter Ollie, who I’m delighted to say is
going to be joining me today. Ollie, thank you very much. I gather you’ve got a
significant challenge coming up, that’s very much related to aero gains, can you tell us a bit about it? – Yeah. Well I’m going to be having
a go at the hour record. Right. But I’m not trying to
break the hour record, which is currently held
by Victor Campenaerts. That’s a bit out of my reach. But what we want to do is look
at Eddy Merckx hour record from 1972 which he did without
any kind of modern aero tech. – Yeah. – And see what difference
50 years aero tech can make. Can it make someone very
genetically average, like myself, be as fast as Eddie Merckx, the greatest of all time back in 1972? – And what are the most
significant changes that you’ve made to your current set up and current equipment, that have made the biggest
impact in your speed that you’re able to go at
the moment in your training? – Without doubt, position. – Okay. – On the bike. Like the biggest
aerodynamic obstacle is you. And so the position is the biggest thing. So, you know, in terms of how the position
is for road cyclists versus triathletes, there
are a lot more restrictions on how you can have that position. So that’s quite interesting. You could potentially
be significantly faster as a triathlete. – Yeah, so. – Just down to position. – What is it in the position
that you would change then, that if you were a triathlete, from your position you’ve got
now, that’s sort of UCI legal? – The main one for me is the
position at the front end, and of your hands. You know, my hands are
pretty high but you know, triathletes can have their
hands as high as they want. And you know, you can get them right, really high up into your face. – Yeah, yeah we see that as well yeah. – Yeah, whereas there’s a 10
centimeter rule for cyclists. And you know, that potentially
makes you a lot faster, but the stupid thing is,
and this is why I think they should get rid of
this rule for cyclists. And actually be more like triathletes. Yeah I can’t believe I just said that. (laughter) – We’re going to play this back to GCN. – Yeah. I’ll never get fired. (laughter) Is what you get now is you
see the best time trialists, they hold onto their tri bars
with their little fingers so that they get their hands higher. – Yeah. – So, I mean that’s less safe but there’s no rules
saying you can’t do that. So it might, it makes sense that cyclists just to be allowed, for the
UCI to get rid of that rule, and just allow higher tri bars. – Yeah. I mean imagine if you had triathletes riding Ironman Bolton course, having to hold on with
their little fingers. I mean that could be kind of lethal. – But people are doing that. – Going over potholes. – Cyclists. – Actually out on the road,
not just on the track? – Yeah, elite cyclists. – Yeah, that’s another level I guess. – They’re doing that. And it’s, it’s ludicrous really. – And what about our actual bikes. If you look at the triathlon bike, like outside of kind of the
rules of saddle position and front end position. Is there any triathlon bike you envy or you think there’s a load
of aero gains in that bike compared to a UCI bike? And you’ve seen some in the office, you know we’ve had the P5X in
the past and bikes like that. Are there any bikes that
you look at and think, I wish the rules ‘d be slacker for UCI that we could really gain from that? – Yeah. Well, if they’re faster
then yeah I want one. You know I think I would, I think. I don’t think bike design should
be stifled by those rules. I think it, it makes no sense to do that. Obviously to a point. And that’s the problem. You know, otherwise, you
end up, where does it stop. We all end up in faired recumbents. – So I mean, where are
the rules going to be, ’cause we’ve just seen
the whole talking point that I was mentioning
before you came along, was this came about from the shoe. And world Athletics have banned the shoe and it looks like triathlon aren’t actually going
to be using that shoe. But, we have a different
rule and we ignore UCI rules. So do you actually think that triathlon bikes
should still be allowed, or do you think that they should be banned and there should just
be one rule for bikes, like there is potentially
one rule for shoes? – No. – There we go. We heard it from Ollie everyone. – I don’t think they should, but I think there should
be some rules in place, just not the current UCI rules. There has to be rules in place otherwise you end up
with faired recumbents. – Okay. – Where does I end? – Where does it end. – And you know, we want
to keep it looking like a, and also draw the line
on sock length as well. – Oh, right, out of here. (Ollie laughs) Ollie thank you very much. You just spoilt it then. But thank you very much for your time. Good luck with the rest of your training and good luck on Monday. – Work hard sculpting calves,
you want to show ’em off. – Off you go, thank you. (Ollie laughs) (upbeat music) Well you’ve heard Ollie’s answer. It’s now my turn to ask
you guys the question. So, it’s a very simple yes or no answer. Do you think triathlon
bikes should be banned? And you can vote on that
by just clicking up here. And if you’ve got any
really strong thoughts, then make sure you share them with us in the comments section below. And then for the results of
last week’s poll, when we asked, will Cam Wurf racing with
Ineos as a pro-cyclist actually increase his chances
of winning Kona this year? And 58% of you said yes, 42% said no. So fairly even split. And we’ll have to wait until
September, ’til October even, to find out. Well it is giveaway time, and this week we’ve got
a very generous prize from our partners at Amp Human. And for those of you who haven’t watched one
of our earlier shows when we’ve actually talked about this. Well it’s a PR lotion that’s
got the sodium bicarbonate actually dissolved into the lotion in a way that can then be
absorbed through your skin. Now you might be wondering
what sodium bicarbonate is. Well it’s basically acts
as a buffer to lactic acid, so it allows you to push
yourself that bit further. And it also has been proven
to help with recovery. So that’s enough about what it is. Now what’s on offer. Well each champion kit contains
three of the PR lotions, then a packet of five
sachets of PR lotion, so perfect for keeping in
your kit bag or on a race day. An Amp Human buff and an Amp Human towel. And we’ve got five of these
champion kits to give away. And if you’re wanting to know how, then all you need to
do is click on the link in the description below and
there’ll be some instructions for you to follow there. (upbeat music) It’s time for tri news, and yes, I am still going on about running shoes. But before you despair
with me, hold on a moment because I am not talking
about anything to do with thick foam or carbon plates. I am in fact talking about
the first biodegradable shoe from Saucony. Now we’ve had shoes made from
recycled products in the past. Well now this is a shoe
that’s actually designed to be recycled. Although before we get too excited, this shoe is going to
be a lifestyle trainer, but I guess we do have to start somewhere. And it’s going to be made from
natural and renewable resources. This actually requires
less electricity to make than their normal models, so it’s sustainable I
guess in two aspects. And the idea is that once
you’ve got your lifespan out of that shoe, when it’s thrown away, it’s then able to biodegrade. And I just hope though, if
you’re using it in the UK, with all the mud and the
rain we’ve got at the moment, it doesn’t start biodegrading prematurely. Right now, looking back at last weekend which had a couple of big races. The first up was the
Ironman 70.3 in Dubai, and that brought out
a pretty packed field, both from the men’s and the women’s, so much so that we saw both of the course records get broken. The men’s race course record
was broken by Bart Aernouts, who took the win a couple of
minutes ahead of compatriot Pieter Heemeryck, also from Belgium. And then it was Adam Bowden
who finished in third. And the women’s side it was
a dominating performance by Imogen Simmonds who took the win and was the first woman to
actually go under four hours on that course. And it was a surprising
and impressive performance by Danielle Dingman who actually
came home in second place, but she came off the bike in tenth. So with the fastest run of the day moved up those eight place
to make it onto the podium. Third place went to Pamella Oliveira who came out of the water first and then hung on to finish third overall. And the other big race was
the ITU World Championships winter triathlon in Asiago, Italy. And for those of you who don’t
know it’s all based on snow. It starts with a run on snow
with spikes in their shoes, then onto a mountain bike ride followed off with cross country skis. So it’s pretty full on from the start and it’s fair to say that Russia are rather dominant in this sport. For the men’s elite race,
it was won by Russia, Pavel Andreev took the gold, it was Marek Rauchfuss
from the Czech Republic who won the silver, and
then Dmitriy Bregada, also of Russia, won the
bronze in the men’s race. The elite women’s race was won by Daria Rogozina from Russia. I’ll just warn you now it’s
a clean sweep for Russia. Anna Medvedeva was second and
then Yulia Surikova was third, all from Russia. So it’s probably going to be no surprise that the team mixed relay, which I think was a first time
they’ve actually held this at the World Championships
for the winter triathlon, was won by team Russia. Yeah, you guessed it. It was team Italy second
and team Czech Republic who were third. Okay, like I promised, it’s time to share some of your photos. We’re going to start off with your photos, got one of ours in a moment. But this one has been sent in by Umberto, from Wheatgrass Dam, which
turns out is actually in Brazil. And it’s pretty cool. It says, “My friends and
I always swim in this dam, “it’s a great location for
training in open water.” And it’s right next to his home. Pretty lucky there with that one. “The water’s crystal clear,
very hot almost all year round.” Which I cannot imagine at the moment. “On the day of this photo
we decided to go further “and set up night training, “to wait in the water for
the full moon to arrive.” I mean, that’s quite cool. A little bit spooky, but cool
if you’ve got some friends. So, awesome picture. And we do love to have
you know, swimming photos and running photos as
well as our cycling ones. And I know, just ’cause it’s cold in the northern hemisphere, some of you guys in
the southern hemisphere are enjoying some sunshine. Anyway, this next picture
is back to the cold. It’s sent in by Laworldo
from Almerty and he says, “Just one day in Almerty,
track session and a swim.” Obviously this is him
doing his track session, or more of a session on a
little bit of melted snow that he’s actually found some tarmac. But we like to see all
angles so thanks for that. And then this one here is quite sweet. This is sent in by Barthelemy
in Quebec in Canada. Apparently he is a coach, ’cause there’s a rather
interesting piece of kit here. If you look closely, underneath the kicker he has a custom made rocker plate that’s been designed
by one of his athletes. Which is pretty unique, I do
like that, it’s rather cool. And then he’s also, you might
notice if you look closely in the front of the screen
there, a FisherPrice smart cycle. I didn’t know such a thing exists, but he says he gets a chance to ride along with his girlfriend
and his three year old, as she’s just crazy about cycling. Well that’s pretty cool. Also has remote controls
to activate the fan, so everything going on in that pain cave. We like it. Next up from Sam, this
is looking pretty swish. Giant TCR, which apparently is his, and then a Bianci Aria on the wall, which I presume is maybe his
girlfriend’s, I don’t know. “Our pain cave which we spent the last
few months perfecting.” And it certainly looks
perfect if you ask me. They’ve even hung up all their jerseys and got nice pictures on the walls. So really beautiful pain cave and a plant. Looks far too nice to
actually get sweaty in. But again, pretty cool one. This picture, back
outside now for this one from Alison, she’s sent
it in again from Canada. Looks like Canada might
have similar situation to what we’ve got. She says, “Been really hard for a week “and I woke up to a break in the weather, “so I jumped on my gravel
bike to make the most of it.” Like the way you’re thinking there. And this picture apparently
is from the Spanish banks. And she said the bike and her
was a muddy mess at the end, but a couple of hours were worth
it for some fun in January. So a nice real picture,
we can’t see the mud so we’re not going to
judge you on that one. Some brilliant photos
there and a real selection and just to remind you guys if you’ve, whether you’re in the northern hemisphere, southern hemisphere, you’re
training indoors, outdoors, or you’re racing, do
share your photos with us. And you can do that
using the GTN uploader. All right, it’s now time for
GTN’s caption competition. And like I said, going to
share some of our photos. Those of you who watched
the show last week will have already seen this one of Mark flying through the air. And there’s some brilliant
captions for it actually. And as Mark’s not here, I
get to choose the winner. So, we had a few runners up ’cause it was quite hard to decide. Affen Papst says, “GTN,
a 2020 splash hit.” I like that one. These next two, I was originally told I wasn’t allowed to put
it in unless I sung them, but I can’t do it to you guys, ’cause you’d all switch off right now. So I’m afraid you’re just
going to have to imagine. Neil Houser says, “I believe I can fly.” R.Kelly, you get the idea of that one. And then danLPO7, “Near,
far, wherever you are” Titanic, standing at
the front of the boat. Yeah, sorry I can’t quite add
anymore to it other than that. Our final runner up comes from Staplesish and says, “Flying mounts, not
just for bike starts anymore.” I really like that one, but our winner this week is Bluefrenxy78 with “Alphafly! Vaporfly! Markfly!” Well, well done to Bluefrenzy,
if you get in touch we will send you one of our GTN swim caps. And this week, we are
heading over to the snow for our caption competition. So it’s this one from the ITU
Winter World Championships in Asiago, Italy. Do leave us your suggestions
in the comments section below. And there’s still plenty
more coming up this week. We’ve got a video on how to
improve your VO2 max running, so make sure you keep
an eye out for that one. We’ve also got a little
valentine’s special on the 14th of February of course. So watch out for that. And hopefully you have
enjoyed today’s show. Give us a thumbs up like if so, and find that globe on screen to make sure you get all of
those videos that are coming up. And if you want to check out our GTN kit, then there should be a link to the shop on the screen right now. And then, finally, two videos which I think you might
like to have a look at. We’ve got one on how to improve your core and what is core strength. You can find that just down here. And if you want to make your swim training a little bit more fun, well
check out this video here.

100 thoughts on “Is It Time To Ban Triathlon Bikes? | The GTN Show Ep. 131”

  • Should tri bikes be banned? Don't forget to enter the poll and enter the AMP Human Comp! Oh, and leave us your captions too!

  • I think there two things to take into consideration. First, tri bike does not give you advantage in terms of your power input. It lowers the aerodrag and makes you move faster in that way. Banned shoes couls give you, lets say additional power by bouncing your feet from the ground. Second, its safety issue. In case they are group racing, everyone should have brakes quickly available.

  • Should Tri bikes be banned? NO! My wife and I concur that the mechanical “addition” to human performance provided by the rebound effect of the carbon soled shoes is substantially different than the bike which only allows for a more efficient body position. The bike is not ADDING anything to the riders physical output in the way that the shoe is.

  • Depends what the ultimate aim is of any ban. If it is to level the playing field, then I'd suggest that this is impossible and therefore pointless because there are massive differences between entry level UCI legal bikes and the top UCI level legal bikes. You can never level the playing field. There should be some high level rules to maintain the integrity of classical "cycling". So upright cycle, no recumbent, limits/bans on fairings etc.

  • Two words. Recumbent and fairing. Its really hypocritical of triathlon to say UCI is restrictive while at the same time ban bents n velos for competing. The comment section also shows how small minded triathlon people are saying Tri bikes pushing what is possible on a bike while HPV associations are more radical. You also act the same. At some unofficial Triathlon, someone showed up using a Velokraft Nocom, a recumbent bike and won, only the to be cautioned he should never use that bike again

  • I have been riding with two fingers on each tt bar for years in time trials and triathlons! Mine were so flat it hurt my wrists to have a full grip. Now got different bars so it isnt an issue but it felt controllable and comfortable.

  • Surely triathlon bikes by definition are bikes used in triathlons 🤗 the ones with all the storage are fantastic and creative otherwise we wouldn’t progress with the tech and still be using 3 speeds. It encourages more standard bike owners to customise theirs to gain some of the benefits like bento boxes and aerobar drinks bottles. I use a time trial bike from 2009 so it should be fairly legal anyway but it was a leading aero bike design at the time and i added plenty of modern tech to improve it and my single frame drinks bottle is a tool kit well disguised.
    Would hate to use a road bike to do ironman races in and still would customise that to the nth degree to get back the advantages we enjoy with tt or triathlon bikes. Would the aero bars be banned too? Imagine that 🤢

  • No, because the slack of rules makes sure that companies keeps on upgrading tri bikes drastically every year. And who doesn’t wants to see innovations on bikes?

  • For the love of God…
    The company was named after the ancient Greek goddess of victory, Nike, which is pronounced ni-key

  • Caption Contest: "
    You put you right foot in. You take your right foot out. You put your right foot in and you shake it all about. You do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around…"

  • Caption: Damn when they said that it was going to be a winter triathlon they weren’t kidding, this lake swim is completely frozen over! I have to use these weird shoes for crying out loud!

  • I don't think "tri bikes" should be banned, BUT there must be some LIMITS to what's being allowed NOW, aiming more towards to UCI rules and real-world amateur triathlon reality, because some high tag innovations and safety issues are going a little bit too far. For instance, bar positioning with least secure hands, as pointed by Ollie, or those custom-handmade-carbon ultra-aero tribars unaccessible to public in general, or extremely aggressive enlonged tubing frame shapes even with water storing inside… well, I think these are a bit too far from an overall popular adherence to the sport.

  • As a recumbent designer/racer, here is how I would write the rules, and why:
    1. Two 700c wheels only. (No trikes, because they are slower and too wide. And no lowracers, because they are too low for open roads.)
    2. No frontal fairing—A rear fairing must have a volume of 6ft^3 or less. (Enough room for food&fuel, but nothing ridiculous, like Mike Burrow's bikes)
    3. Rider must ride feet-first, or in the traditional time trial position. (No prone bikes, and safer in a crash.)
    4. Absolutely no eBikes. Duh.
    5. Recumbents will only be allowed at non-drafting events. (Recumbents are suitable for riding in groups, but a recumbent drafting a TT bike gets a greater advantage than a TT bike drafting a recumbent—allowing recumbents in non-drafting events eliminates this unbalance.)

    These rules restrict the design of the recumbent to one that uses standard road bike components, while providing tremendous room for innovation without allowing extremes, such as lowracers like the Velokraft Nocom, or streamliners and velomobiles, which are impractical for racing on open roads with many athletes. Furthermore, these rules still allow riders to use a traditional triathlon bike, if they choose.

  • Yes. And make all races draft legal. Saying races are non-drafting is a joke in the majority of races, even in the pro ranks, never mind age-group. Also this would have a balancing effect on the massive over-emphasis on the bike leg of the iron distance races

  • Yes TT/tri bikes should be banned. I have a not cheap tri bike setup because i want to be competitive, but the sport has become too expensive. Triathlon favours wealthy, middle aged athletes which is wrong. I’d like draft legal rules for all sprint and standard distance races. A level playing field is what’s needed.

  • Doesn't ICU have rules for TT bikes? These ban the non traditional, non triangle frame bikes. And isn't it the same for ITU?

  • I am not sure if (or if so why) "The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" was popular anywhere outside the U.S., but if it were my caption would be:
    🎵It's not unusual to be loved by anyone…🎵

  • The ban on the shoes can’t be based on technical advantages because that would apply to anything, cloths, watches, etc.. and this is more true with cycling where technical advantages come from so many sources. The Nike ban is ridiculous.

  • I’d like Alex Hutchinson to chime in on the validity to the AMP HUMAN claims. Can you get him to comment on the biological evidence

  • I don't think tri bikes should be banned as most brands produce them so most pros have access to them. Whereas with the shoes many can't wear them due to sponsors so they'd be at a disadvantage.

  • For UCI up to them since they need to conform to Olympic but for IM races, current set up is the way to go…just like they old F1/motogp…technology development

    Any UCI riders cheat too by drafting …hahaha …try make them do non drafting rules

  • banned from what? road bike races? triathalons? you need to be specific, like the new ban on shoes are for marathom distances. so what specific race to ban the bike?

  • I feel the more things they ban, the less innovation each sport will have, innovation makes these sports interesting, and forces every company to up their game, as long as it's available for all, it shouldnt be banned

  • The IAAF's position on Nike's shoe is idiotic. Track spikes make you faster. Hell, tracks make you faster. Should sprinters run on grass in plimsolls like primary school kids?

  • Why is this a question?
    UCI rules clearly favor more compact riders. Actually, since we've opened this can of worms, timed events favor taller athletes in general. In the age of the "woke" ness, why should there be an Age bracket if there isn't a Height bracket? It Should be obvious that a majority of taller runners and swimmers have faster times. Cycling is the only Tri equipment that tortures taller riders due to in race restrictions and seat to stem angle. UCI needs to change the rules or change the height class.

  • New restrictions for new races or special categories within current races please.
    Nice bikes are the part of the show, which even with them is not so popular unfortunately.

  • Sure, let’s ban tri-bikes. While we are at it, let’s ban the Galloway method, and wetsuits too. Hell, let’s just make everyone swim naked, ride a fixed gear bike and run barefoot, after all, it’s how Mother Nature intended. **For those who are totally daft, I am speaking in full on snark**

  • Carbon blade shoes shouldn't be compared to triathlon bikes – they should be compared to motorized bikes.
    Aerodynamics and adjusting safety aspects shouldn't be a problem.

  • Julien missed the point. All triathlon bikes are banned for UCI mass start racing, but only a very select few are banned from time trial events.

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